more skills then 8 skills to use in game

[solid_snake_fh]

i really would like 10 skill boxes in the game like most of the games i play
this keeps it at a fair amount of the game.
what do you guys think?
oh and i dont want to hear that they couldnt do it cause the game is only made to use 8 im a modder and ive done it before, on another game :D

[neversummer84]

i say if it aint broke dont fix it. they would have to rebalance everything if they made it 10

[liste]

i think 10's too much!

with 8, you will have to consider carefully what to bring, adding a tactical element to it. with 10, you'll basically just be more uber. you more uber = game needs rebalancing = teh suck

No matter what the skill limit is, there's always going to be another skill I wish I had one more slot for! :lol:

[Mattinator]

I like it how it is right now, but if they did change it I suppose I would adjust

[rellewkram]

I also wish that I could use more than one Elite skill at one time, but there's no way that wouldbe fair. There are all sorts of skill combos that could be done with more slots that would cause certain builds to gain an advantage. With only 8, one has to make sacrifices in order to get one thing that they're good at. Just like with attribute points, you have to concentrate and go a certain direction, instead of being good at everything.

[suemccartin]

personally, I think it's kinda dumb to have to waste a skill slot to have your pet with you. After you cast the spell to charm the pet that should be it, there's no reason that rangers should be penalized because they want a pet, now the pet skills, I can see a slot for those but not for the charm. My two cents.

[Teela]

personally, I think it's kinda dumb to have to waste a skill slot to have your pet with you. After you cast the spell to charm the pet that should be it, there's no reason that rangers should be penalized because they want a pet, now the pet skills, I can see a slot for those but not for the charm. My two cents.

this is one point I have discussed for ages....
and I agree with sue....the charm animal thing is just annoying...especially when I want to farm for gold or run someone, wasting even one slot just to bring Kitty along until she dies is annoying to me.

[cjordan]

personally, I think it's kinda dumb to have to waste a skill slot to have your pet with you. After you cast the spell to charm the pet that should be it, there's no reason that rangers should be penalized because they want a pet, now the pet skills, I can see a slot for those but not for the charm. My two cents.

I COMPLETELY, and whole-heartedly agree with you. Get rid of that stupid limitation at *least*.

[cjordan]

i think 10's too much!

with 8, you will have to consider carefully what to bring, adding a tactical element to it. with 10, you'll basically just be more uber. you more uber = game needs rebalancing = teh suck

I understand the strategic aspect that a skill limitation lends to the game, but from a PvE (read: RPG) perspective, it's just plain silly to have to decide what skills to take with you.

Do people have skill slots? Do I forget how to drive or ride a bike if I forget to equip those skills before I leave the house? If I'm going to work, do I need to remember to bring my typing or programming skills with me in my brief case? No. Of course I don't. And my character shouldn't be limited in such a way either.

If ever there was a mod to get rid of this limitation, I'd be all for it, but I'd rather that the game developers provided it instead.

In fact, they could satisify me if they would increase the skill slots slightly and also let me change which skills I've equipped no matter where I am.

I suggest that the limitation be placed only on PvP or GvG since those are the folks who seem to be in favor of the limitation based on the strategic element involved.

[suemccartin]

Its enough limitation that you can't actually use the skill if it's not in your skill bar. I can see not allowing the changing of skills in combat but when you're not in combat why do you have to be in a town to change your skill set? Silly, silly, silly. Just dumb and wastes a lot of time.

If you ask me there should be waaaaay more way-points in the wilderness (spots you can teleport to). Why not just let us have an item or a skill that lets you go to the revive points (where you pop up when you die)? Those are already all over the map (and have it so that you have to have actually been there once before you can teleport to it), it would sure make the game more enjoyable not to have to walk for twenty minutes to get to some of the more remote places that way if you want the experience value of killing eveyrthing to get where you're going you can do that or just get there if you don't care about the exp from slaughtering a ton of monsters. Now I'm sure part of why they do this is to prevent bigger characters from tanking for new characters but there should be some kind of compromise to be had here--perhaps they could do something like Blizzard did in Diablo by preventing characters of certain levels from using way points at all before they'd completed certain other parts of the game.

[cjordan]

Its enough limitation that you can't actually use the skill if it's not in your skill bar. I can see not allowing the changing of skills in combat but when you're not in combat why do you have to be in a town to change your skill set? Silly, silly, silly. Just dumb and wastes a lot of time.

Not being able to change what skills are equipped while actually engaged in battle would be okay I suppose (I'm willing to compermise here :))

If you ask me there should be waaaaay more way-points in the wilderness (spots you can teleport to). Why not just let us have an item or a skill that lets you go to the revive points (where you pop up when you die)? Those are already all over the map (and have it so that you have to have actually been there once before you can teleport to it), it would sure make the game more enjoyable not to have to walk for twenty minutes to get to some of the more remote places that way if you want the experience value of killing eveyrthing to get where you're going you can do that or just get there if you don't care about the exp from slaughtering a ton of monsters. Now I'm sure part of why they do this is to prevent bigger characters from tanking for new characters but there should be some kind of compromise to be had here--perhaps they could do something like Blizzard did in Diablo by preventing characters of certain levels from using way points at all before they'd completed certain other parts of the game.

I'm not a huge fan of teleporting (unless it was a spell or a rune or somethin), but that being said, I have found myself using it and have also wished there were more points to teleport to. But i'd still vote for teleportation being a spell or a rune... just to fit in with the RPG aspect of course. :D

[ShadowGryphon]

i think 10's too much!

with 8, you will have to consider carefully what to bring, adding a tactical element to it. with 10, you'll basically just be more uber. you more uber = game needs rebalancing = teh suck

I understand the strategic aspect that a skill limitation lends to the game, but from a PvE (read: RPG) perspective, it's just plain silly to have to decide what skills to take with you.

Do people have skill slots? Do I forget how to drive or ride a bike if I forget to equip those skills before I leave the house? If I'm going to work, do I need to remember to bring my typing or programming skills with me in my brief case? No. Of course I don't. And my character shouldn't be limited in such a way either.
Consider if you will, the fact that while you are riding a bike you don't really need or want to be writing notes , so that would be a skill useless, not to mention dangerous, while driving or riding a bike.
But, you pointed out how things work in the game yourself. you only use the skills you need at that point in time.

If ever there was a mod to get rid of this limitation, I'd be all for it, but I'd rather that the game developers provided it instead.

In fact, they could satisify me if they would increase the skill slots slightly and also let me change which skills I've equipped no matter where I am.
The problem with changing skills at will, in any location, is that it sidesteps the strategic aspect of the game. When you go into a quest or mission, you are ment to think ahead of time what you'll need and what you won't need, and if what you have at the time doesn't work, then you go back and try a new loadout. I look at it like this, I used to play Magic: The Gathering and part of the purpose of the game is to build the most effective deck that you can, and if the deck you are currently useing doesn't work against an opponent I couldn't just add cards while I was playing to beat my opponent, that would be cheating. So, I played until I lost then I'd go and retune my deck, or build a whole new one, to account for my opponents deck, then I'd try again.
It's no different with character builds and skill loadouts in GW, you find what works for you and go with it.
In all reality, do you really use more than 8 anyway ? I've talked to some ppl who rarely use more than 5 primary and 3 secondary.

I suggest that the limitation be placed only on PvP or GvG since those are the folks who seem to be in favor of the limitation based on the strategic element involved.
in a way there IS a limitation, if you've not unlocked something with your PvE character, your PvP/GvG character won't have them either.

[cjordan]

Consider if you will, the fact that while you are riding a bike you don't really need or want to be writing notes , so that would be a skill useless, not to mention dangerous, while driving or riding a bike.
But, you pointed out how things work in the game yourself. you only use the skills you need at that point in time.

The problem with changing skills at will, in any location, is that it sidesteps the strategic aspect of the game. When you go into a quest or mission, you are ment to think ahead of time what you'll need and what you won't need, and if what you have at the time doesn't work, then you go back and try a new loadout.

Right, good point, but the moment I get off the bike or out of the car, I've got that ability to use. I agreed with suemccartin (above) who suggested that maybe you shouldn't be able to change skills in the heat of battle, and I agreed that would probably be a good compermise.

But I disagree that it would take away from strategy. If you have access to all of your skills all of the time, then you still have to figure out which ones are the best to use in a given situation. And if you've got a butt-load of skills then it will add to the difficulty. I just don't want to have to travel back to a city or outpost in order to change my strategy.

My Ranger should be able to have all of his bow skills available to him in battle. That would be where your 'reading/writing while driving/riding' point falls apart (IMO). I'm a ranger. I'm in battle with my bow. I should have all my bow skills available to me. Choosing which ones to use (and in which combinations) in time to thwart my enemy is where the strategy resides, IMHO.

It's no different with character builds and skill loadouts in GW, you find what works for you and go with it.
In all reality, do you really use more than 8 anyway ? I've talked to some ppl who rarely use more than 5 primary and 3 secondary.

I think it is different. When I'm building a character I'm deciding who he is, and how I'm going to play him and I build accordingly. But that character should have access to all of his skills at the appropriate time.

A good example might be a mesmer walking along and he's used one of his skill slots for the skill "Backfire" which causes a hex to backfire on the foe who cast it and do damage... well that's pretty useless if he never runs into any foes who cast hexes. So let's say our mesmer in this example peeks around the corner and sees a bunch of folks to fight and he needs different skills, are we truely going to make him go home first to change his skills?

"Hang on boss, I can't read that memo yet, I've got to run home and equip my reading skill first. I've got my typing, collating, programming, short-hand skills along with my driving and parallel parking skills, I needed my office 2003 skill and my email skill so there just wasn't room for my reading skill.... sorry"

A silly example to be sure, but I think it may illistrate my point. Of course, I'm comming from a role playing background.

in a way there IS a limitation, if you've not unlocked something with your PvE character, your PvP/GvG character won't have them either.

eh... I still want to have access to all my skills and be able to switch them up whenever I want. Perhaps in a PvP or GvG tournament battle there'd be a limitation. From the standpoint of an RPG I can rationalize a GvG or PvP battle as kind of a boxing match or some other exibition bout where two teams are pitted against eachother and rules of the match have been set such that each praticipant is only allowed 8 skills/spells. Then there's a strategy for the team to figure out who needs to equip what skills/spells in order to beat the opposing team.

But if I'm out in the world adventuring (read: role playing that I *am* this character and I'm on a mission for king and country), then I want all of my skills available to me or at least to be able to switch without having to be in a town or outpost.

Just my two cents. :D

[suemccartin]

Maybe when they came up with this they were thinking about the old dungeons and dragons system where a magic user had to sleep to gain a new spell after studying it out of the book or a cleric had to have new spells granted to them by their deity after prayer or a sacrifice (depending upon the alignment of the deity).

I guess if you think about it that way the skills are a spell of a type but if that's the case then put in a way to sleep when you're outside of town and change your spells, that would eliminate the concern that you are taking some of the strategy out of the game because you'll get attacked while you're resting to change your abilities. I guess another way to handle it would be to again use the revive points--i.e. you've got to be standing on one to change your spells---now there's an idea I think I like even better, the shrines already exist and it's not like you're losing an hour of game play to go back to town and change your skills if you could change em at a revive shrine--I'd go for that.

[cjordan]

eh... I don't know. I think you should be able to change them no matter what or where. In fact I would rather not be limited to eight. give me a bar that contains all of my skills and let me choose which ones to use and when and in what cominations.

I *hate* to make this compairson, but I like the way this particular aspect of the game is handled in WoW.

But, considering that they limit us to the bar of eight, I'd be willing to be satisified with changing anywhere and anywhen as long as you're not in the heat of battle... even though that might be when you realize you need to change the most. :D

[One]

Well... 8 or 10.... hmm I would say 10. This is how is see it. When you gvg and pvp and all that people must have a rez sig. or some kind... I dont care what you think or what you say, like but I dont have zoom beacuse it would mess up my build. Well times in these days people are always saying you must have one of some kind. What do you do if you need all your skills? Well if they dont want to change it to 10 they should atleast have a skill spot for only rez... Sound kinda dumb but come on.. Really I would like to have 10 spots and maybe 2 elite skills, thats right 2!

Make thisa game alittle harder for us ^_^ With 2 elite skills thier could be so much more fun.

[DarkSun]

i say if it aint broke dont fix it.
I agree there is no reason to go and modify something that seems to be working really well for everyone. I do sometimes wish they did have 9 though instead of 8. But you can't have everything in life.

[Kevo]

I've been playing GW almost exclusively since the beginning of May.... I'm ready for two more slots, at least for PvE....

Also, I totally agree on the charm pet issue, but that is also the way you control if and when you want to bring your pet, so I see both sides of the coin. They would have to come up with a different way to toggle pet on or off before you leave the town if they chose to take away the necessity of having charm pet equiped in order to take along your pet.

[cjordan]

I agree there is no reason to go and modify something that seems to be working really well for everyone.

if it worked really well for everyone, then there wouldn't be people asking for it to change. I would have to say that it seems like we may be the minority, but they're asking for suggestions and we're giving them.

I dont' think it's necessarily broke, but I could use improving upon I feel... at least for the PvE side of the coin.

[Ediseye]

I think that if they did change it, it should be 9 instead of 10. 10 seems a little to much to me but that is just my opinion.

[DarkSun]

if it worked really well for everyone, then there wouldn't be people asking for it to change. I would have to say that it seems like we may be the minority, but they're asking for suggestions and we're giving them.

Point well taken. I guess I should have thought of that before I posted.

[cjordan]

if it worked really well for everyone, then there wouldn't be people asking for it to change. I would have to say that it seems like we may be the minority, but they're asking for suggestions and we're giving them.

Point well taken. I guess I should have thought of that before I posted.

eh... no worries... it was just opinion (as are most posts) :D

[AznBoiTam]

I agree with the creator with this topic and most of yall, and that is that we should have atleast 10 skills rather then just 8. But, from what I have been hearing, is that some of yall want to be able to switch your skills anywhere. To me that is a good thing and a bad. By doing so you take away the strategic side of the game. But, then you can change your strategy while in battle. Now, if they add like some refund points or so to reallocate your skills while in the wilds, then it makes the game more balanced.

[ShadowGryphon]

the refund points were removed with the addition of the Sorrows Furnace expansion..... I for one am glad it was eliminated.

You know, I HAVE to disagree with all this, you want all the benefits and none of the challenges, and to me, that makes for a piss poor game.
if you don't like how the game is set up, either make your own or stop playing GW.
I understand wanting to improve the game, I really do, but the idea of making things "easier" by giving 10 skills spots over 8, is ill thought out to say the least, for one reason..... you get your 10, then suddenly you want 15 , then 20 then 30 .......... where does it end ?

My analogy of M:tG deck creation being similar to the skill loadout seems more and more apt as I read this thread, if you cannot figure out how to make the 8 skill slots work for you, then you shouldn't play this game.... it's about strategy and getting the most out of what you have been given, not about wanting more just so you don't have to decide what NOT to use.

My W/E and N/W work as well as they do because I took the time to figure out what 8 skills make my characters more effective in battle. I worked with what I was given and didn't complain about not having more, and to be honest, I have gotten complimented MANY times on how well my characters work in battle, all because I found the 8 skills that work best, for my characters, in ANY given situation.
BUT, someone did mention the idea accumulating points to make the skills somewhat more powerful ( kind of like going from a lvl one vampiric touch to a lvl 2), That would add more of an RPG flavor to the game than it had previously, and I like that (especially when dealing with some of the lvl 27-30 creatures , Fire Djinn anyone ? sheesh! :shock: ). and yes , I know that the attribute points are supposed to do this, but there are certain skills I'd like to see a little more powerful.

[S_H_R_i_K_E]

8 skills is enough, i can`t see why people want more. If you want to fight in a certain area there are 2 things to take into consideration before heading out: who is your enemy and who are your friends. On the basis of this you decide how to fight and what skills to bring with you... and hey sometimes you will get those nasty surprises, but that`s the whole fun of the game. :wink:

[Teela]

Think about it this way....think classic RPG's where you could only rest in towns...because if you rested elsewhere you'd get killed in your sleep.

Now translate that to guild wars....the basica assumption to make is this...it takes you time and effort to prepare yourself to use your skills. In fact it takes so much concentration to be able to use your skills correctly that not only do you have to set them up in town, but you can only take 8 of them with you at any given time.


And basically, I have to say I agree with the devs on this one. The game isn't like Bard's Tale with nearly infinite spell points or the old D&D Games (where you DID have to memorize a limited amount of spells, ie set up skills)....If I could take 10 skills with me right now. There'd be no point in playing because those extra two skills would ensure I'd never get killed. And that's the argument I've heard the most from other people in other forums. If they had the two extras, they'd be pretty much unstoppable in PvE.


solid_snake_fh....I get your point about they could do it, but should they? I just don't think so.

[cjordan]

I still disagree that it would remove *all* strategy from the game, though I agree that there is more strategy involved with the limit in place. But
I'll not argue that point again here. My views on that subject are well
documented in this thread and in others I think. :)

I will say that while reading Teela's most recent post, and her analogy
about preperation time, etc. a thought occured to me, and maybe this is
at the crux of my problem.

Skills should not equal spells.

By that, I mean that a spell is (perhaps) something that should be
memorized and we can say for the sake of argument that each person can
only memorize so much stuff (read: eight slots).

Skills on the other hand, typically be come second nature. I'm a juggler (really, and truely I am:D) and I remember when I was learning that skill that I used to have to try real hard just to keep the three ball pattern going, but when I had learned it, I could keep it going and my thought process changed to more of a "when will I stop?" or "How will I end it" rather than consentrating on keeping the pattern up in the air.

This same idea can be seen in the skill of riding a bike. Most of us will surely remember the many scrapes and bruses we got when learning to ride a bike, but once we had that skill it was ours to use whenever we wanted (as long as we had a bike) and we no longer thought of how to keep our balance on two wheels, but rather how where were we going, and for the guys (and maybe some girls), how high could we jump it off that curb (another skill that most eight year old boys have).

It took time to learn the skill, but it didn't take preperation or memorization (muscle memory, sure, but that's inherent to the human body).

I guess that's my rant. I just know that I would like to have all my skills available to me, or at *least* be able to switch anywhere I want. If folks want that added strategy, then fill your eight slots and don't touch 'em again until you get to a town. But to impose that limitation on the rest of the gaming world is sorta lame.

That does not mean I think GW is lame. Quite the contrary. I love playing, and will continue to play. I'm just making my "Game Suggestions" as the title of this forum would indicate.

All disagreements welcome. You'll still be wrong. :P

[Teela]

cjordan....

no no, you must have me mistaken for someone else, I'm never wrong. Ask my dad. *LOL* Every argument ends with him saying "oh, I must have forgotten, you're always right." but it's only because I'm as stubborn, and pigheadish as he is.

I guess I still just have a problem with balance though.

You say there will still be strategy with 10 skills. I can't see it....at L20 I over power most of what I meet as it is. 10 skills and it would be 'all' instead of 'most'. If they give in the the 10 skill requests that are out there (and other forums do have them too) then we'll endup with harder enemies to compensate and lots of the people who wanted 10 will want 12.

I'm not trying to be stubbor or pigheaded, it's just the way I see it. I understand your position, but no matter how hard I try I can't come into agreement with it.

[cjordan]

no no, you must have me mistaken for someone else, I'm never wrong. Ask my dad. *LOL* Every argument ends with him saying "oh, I must have forgotten, you're always right." but it's only because I'm as stubborn, and pigheadish as he is.

ROFL! Teela, I'm just glad you took that as it was intended. I've made it my signature line, so it's going to be around for a while. :)

I guess I still just have a problem with balance though.

You say there will still be strategy with 10 skills. I can't see it....at L20 I over power most of what I meet as it is. 10 skills and it would be 'all' instead of 'most'. If they give in the the 10 skill requests that are out there (and other forums do have them too) then we'll endup with harder enemies to compensate and lots of the people who wanted 10 will want 12.

You're right to be worried about game balance. And if adding skill slots would decrease balance, then adjust the balance accordingly.

However, I think I've managed to sell myself on this idea, and that is:

Leave the stupid thing at eight skill slots, but let me change anywhere I want (except in the heat of battle... just to add a bit more challange). That way if I need to change up my slots then I'll need to run away first.

Also, an idea I think I like even better is having skills be seprate from spells and track skills the same way attributes are tracked. That way the slots are only there to hold spells. But then, I'd still like to be able to change spells anywhere I wanted (except in the heat of battle... and buffalo not there either.)

I'm not trying to be stubbor or pigheaded, it's just the way I see it. I understand your position, but no matter how hard I try I can't come into agreement with it.

Resistance is futile, Teela. Admit it. :P

[cjordan]

I really hope the dev's are reading this... it's a good debate. :)

[Teela]

Resistance is futile, Teela. Admit it. :P

*LOL*

umm....sorry pal....you're no Patrick Stewart....only Locutus can say that and sound cool.

[cjordan]

I *am* Patrick Stew.... okay, I'm not him. LOL!

[Twizted Darkness]

Well... 8 or 10.... hmm I would say 10. This is how is see it. When you gvg and pvp and all that people must have a rez sig. or some kind... I dont care what you think or what you say, like but I dont have zoom beacuse it would mess up my build. Well times in these days people are always saying you must have one of some kind. What do you do if you need all your skills? Well if they dont want to change it to 10 they should atleast have a skill spot for only rez... Sound kinda dumb but come on.. Really I would like to have 10 spots and maybe 2 elite skills, thats right 2!

Make thisa game alittle harder for us ^_^ With 2 elite skills thier could be so much more fun.

I think they should leave 8 skill slots but then have special slots for charm animal ( Ranger only ) , Rez Signet ( All others ) and Resurrect ( Monk only ) . I do not think it would throw the game out of balance this way and with this you could toggle them by taking them out of the slots if desired.

[One]

Hmm so I havnt been reading this for awhile now... I see 2 pages of people saying no, yes, no, yes, no, yes if we showed have more skills on our skill bar. Even the poll is a tie lol. I have to say I want more skills on the skill bar lol I would say why I want it like that but everyone mostly said what I would of said.

[Crixon]

i dont know exacly if anyone suggested this,i got bored and just skipped to the bottom,but y not have a npc for changing skills? i mean theres merchants collects ect y not that? it would mean that u wouldnt have to go back to town to change skills ... but u cant just change skills at anytime eather,have just 1 of them every so often in the world,maybe in a cave or a "safe" place where no monsters are gona walk in and killum,but how about that?

[One]

I am guessing and I am pretty sure we are all fighting for more or less skills, mostly for GVG and PVP.

[Twizted Darkness]

I would rather only have the 2 Extra slots for PvE.

As I stated before not just 2 extra slots for actual skills but 2 extra slots that you could only have res signet and something else like charm animal.

That Would at least keep the game somewhat balanced and it woudn't give the PvP's any advantage

[sangsara]

I vote for yes.
Mainly for PVE and for skills such as signet of capture and charm animal.