Black Dye Economy/Price

[jjknitemp9]

A vial of black dye is going for about 7K gp (7 platinum) give or take. This is way too high for something as simple as dye. One of the major appeals of the game is character customization. Therefore, if one wants to customize his character using 4 black dyes (one for each armor piece) it will run near 30K gp. I’m not against “earning” your reward but this is way too extreme. In essence, this destroys the fun of customization if you want to use black dye. I’ve put in about 20hrs of playing in the early part of the game and probably collected 10K. That means 60hrs of game play just to get enough gold for my black dye. And how about the other option of going out and getting it from drops? Between my friend and myself with nearly 100 hrs playing we’ve only seen one black dye dropped. C’mon it’s just black dye so your character can get the look you want. Thus by keeping black dye “scarce” the price increases to excessive levels.

This in fact encourages farming and farming companies and game players to buy from them. When my choices are either putting in 60+ hrs to collect enough gold, get from drops which will take even more time, or spend a few dollars (about $5) real money one can see you how spending that $5 looks pretty tempting. I’m not for buying outside the game. Obviously, this destroys the game economy and leads to a situation where everyone has to buy outside. But the game makers are leaving little choice.

:idea: How do you fix the problem? It is simple economics. You supply much more black dye into the game. This can be done in different ways. It can be done through merchants and/or increasing the chance of getting black dye drops by 10 to 20 times or maybe more. The point being that there will be many more black dyes available and the price will fall. So you keep managing the supply to keep prices more reasonable perhaps around 1000 gp. A person would still need to “earn” the reward but not feel compelled to go outside the game. Hence, you solve several problems and make the game more fun.

[S_H_R_i_K_E]

I don`t really mind about the black dye. I played for 200 hours and got 1 vial of black dye. I am happy now because a can sell it to the more Fashion Sensitive co-players.

I also found 5 vials of orange dye... So i painted everything orange. People stare at me but i don`t care.

It scares the monsters too...

Cheer up there are more colours than black. Customize your character into something realy original :wink:

[Branwen]

I personally think it is great that somethings you can still make effot of a profit that one feels the need to actually use the trade chat. (Many items I would get I find aren't worth wasting time selling in town)

Another reason that the Black Dye is so expensive is that it is so sought after.

Black Dye is also great for those that are at the start of the game and have trouble with gaining enough money to even afford the 3 kits.

~Branwen

[rebelgtp]

in all my time playing the game i have only found 1 black dye ever. i didn't sell it at the merchant, i didn't use it, i gave it to a friend as a gift because she lost one that she had. who cares how much somthing in the game costs, if you want it just earn it, its all part of the game.

[Kevo]

Right, they should make all dyes 7 plat each, this way we can all really work for them! :wink:

I can't see how they are more rare than silver. I think they should be around the price of silver, perhaps up to a plat more. But beyond that is goofy.

Sure, it's nice to sell one and make some good gold, but it all but eliminates the use of it for the lower level folks.

[Twizted Darkness]

A vial of black dye is going for about 7K gp (7 platinum) give or take. This is way too high for something as simple as dye. One of the major appeals of the game is character customization. Therefore, if one wants to customize his character using 4 black dyes (one for each armor piece) it will run near 30K gp. I’m not against “earning” your reward but this is way too extreme. In essence, this destroys the fun of customization if you want to use black dye. I’ve put in about 20hrs of playing in the early part of the game and probably collected 10K. That means 60hrs of game play just to get enough gold for my black dye. And how about the other option of going out and getting it from drops? Between my friend and myself with nearly 100 hrs playing we’ve only seen one black dye dropped. C’mon it’s just black dye so your character can get the look you want. Thus by keeping black dye “scarce” the price increases to excessive levels.

This in fact encourages farming and farming companies and game players to buy from them. When my choices are either putting in 60+ hrs to collect enough gold, get from drops which will take even more time, or spend a few dollars (about $5) real money one can see you how spending that $5 looks pretty tempting. I’m not for buying outside the game. Obviously, this destroys the game economy and leads to a situation where everyone has to buy outside. But the game makers are leaving little choice.

:idea: How do you fix the problem? It is simple economics. You supply much more black dye into the game. This can be done in different ways. It can be done through merchants and/or increasing the chance of getting black dye drops by 10 to 20 times or maybe more. The point being that there will be many more black dyes available and the price will fall. So you keep managing the supply to keep prices more reasonable perhaps around 1000 gp. A person would still need to “earn” the reward but not feel compelled to go outside the game. Hence, you solve several problems and make the game more fun.



I personally think Black Dye should be 5K or less or they should make it drop more often. Because in 250 hours of play time I have only seen 1 bottle drop and it was from a charr overseer in the beginning of post.

[Marko Ramius]

One of the coolest parts of guild wars is that prices vary based on demand. My friends and I like to go around buying and selling different dyes as the prices fluctate. If they try to cap prices or stablize them (which seems to have happend) then we can't be merchants anymore. I mean what is the point in finding dye at a cheap price if you are only going to be able to sell it for 10 gold more?

[maldarkangel]

the reason black dye is so special to me is that you cant use it if you make a pvp character peronaly i thik it should cost the same as silver dye what should be rarer are the mixes you get from coulers you should be able to mix something and your armour should have a much for distinctive glare i mean why not mix ink and red dye and add black give it a blotch red/black coulour diffrent i dno anything. black is WAYYYYY to expensive

[Marko Ramius]

All I am saying is that they should base the prices off supply and demand. If they want to lower the price of black they should increase the likey hood of finding it. I don't want price caps on anything.

[maldarkangel]

your rite it is awfuly rare to find ive never had it once .

[Twizted Darkness]

One of the coolest parts of guild wars is that prices vary based on demand. My friends and I like to go around buying and selling different dyes as the prices fluctate. If they try to cap prices or stablize them (which seems to have happend) then we can't be merchants anymore. I mean what is the point in finding dye at a cheap price if you are only going to be able to sell it for 10 gold more?

Nobody is saying to lower the price of the dye so that it has no value or cap it for that matter... We are simply saying to better regulate the economy so that a normal player can afford to buy the higher value items and not have to farm for 2-3 months 7-8k Would take me nearly 30 days or more of regular play to afford. ( Without Farming or Running )

Same thing goes for Rare weapons !!! I looked at a storm bow last night that the guy wanted 50K for ... I have been playing this game for quite some time now and I farm the heck out of some places and still don't have 50k Which brings us to the point that the economy in this game has gotten way out of hand and they wonder why some people turn to ebay for gold.. The Dev Team at Guild wars needs to increase the chances of a good item dropping more frequently so that the people selling these items for 50-60K will be forced to either sit on them items for the time they own the game or sell them for cheaper. I also think they should rock bottom the price of black dye for a day or two and keep it to where the merchant will only give ppl back 500g or less so they can't profit off selling it back to him that will make it to where the sellers have to compete with prices to sell that dye and eventually it will drop to near worthless and then it will slowly climb back up in value once supply's run short.

No Gold max dmg weapon should cost more than 10-20k ( Unless its the only one in existence )

A Vial of Black Dye should never cost more than 4-5k

JMO

[Marko Ramius]

Yeah if you did that you would screw over everyone who has looked and haggled to get there hands on it for a good price. Your not the only one playing the game making items easier for you to get gyps the people who got them the hard way. Also if the price of black dye gets to high then don't buy it till it comes down or just find somthing else to make you happy. If everything was affordable it wouldn't mean near as much to get it.

[Twizted Darkness]

Yeah if you did that you would screw over everyone who has looked and haggled to get there hands on it for a good price. Your not the only one playing the game making items easier for you to get gyps the people who got them the hard way. Also if the price of black dye gets to high then don't buy it till it comes down or just find somthing else to make you happy. If everything was affordable it wouldn't mean near as much to get it.

I already have what I need , I don't Care for Black Dye Since I have the Druids armor and it would look like trash dyed black .... I'm saying this for the ppl just starting the game , also for normal 2-3 hour a day players and for the Games Sake !!

The people who have spent that much on weapons and black dye will be taking a sacrifice but it would be for the better of the game in the long run.

In the time I have played this game I have seen ppl come and go partly due to economy and prices I have also seen alot of ppl turn to ebay because they simply do not have the patients to farm for endless hours to afford a gold weapon or vial of black dye.

I would like to see this game further succeed but with a kill only dropping 90 gold on avg and prices of 1 bottle of ( Black ) dye reaching 11-14k and a gold weapon going for 60k + I think its going to be short lived for some players.

[DarkSun]

This is the way that I look at it. If the dye is a lot of money then just wait till you have got the best armor in the game for your character. Then dye it black that way you don't have to worry about changing the armor and wasting all that money. Same goes for weapons. I myself dyed my knights armor silver. It looks pretty sweet. 8)

[Twizted Darkness]

This is the way that I look at it. If the dye is a lot of money then just wait till you have got the best armor in the game for your character. Then dye it black that way you don't have to worry about changing the armor and wasting all that money. Same goes for weapons. I myself dyed my knights armor silver. It looks pretty sweet. 8)

half the fun in the game is buying , Selling and using stuff its just the fact that everything has gotten so expensive normal players cannot afford to do that.

When I first started playing in march black dye was about 4k give or take 500

but now on some days I have seen it as much as 11k but it usually sits at about 7.5k

[maldarkangel]

omg you can buy gold from ebay im gna spen my poket money lol and your rite it takes about 5 years to get 10k playing teh game normaly its stupdid they always slag of farming but its the only way unless you pik up somthing super rare.

[ThommiX]

50k for a bow? whoa, that is little too much. worse was this guy telling that his hammer costs 250k... sure it had +30 health and vampiric 5:1 but still shouldn't be that ridiculously high priced. but heck, if you want it, you get the money and buy it.

In my opinion no item in GW is worth more than 30k about.

Here's a hint, go to grenth and sorrows with 5 henchies, kill the bosses in grenth and head in to clear out sorrows. takes maybe 3-5hours and you make about 7-10k per trip and if you're lucky, some green items, which you can sell to someone, usually a lot easier than golden ones. i've made about 100k+ this way, so i don't see anything wrong with the prices in GW. Not the most efficient way of farming, but more fun, Imho.

Sure some items are ridiculously high priced, but then just don't buy it.

And for the black dye, well i've found about 4 of them, sold em all away, since i didn't want black armor which everyone else wanted.
I went and died my armor PINK! yes, you heard it, PINK! 15k Aeroarmor and it looks good.. :shock: :lol:

[Guild of the Lords]

Pink is the shizzle now tell me how to do it

(taking out his notepad listening very attentavly)

ok first u start off with?

Red and Silver mixxed = Pink (on most armor)

[ThommiX]

Red+Purple+Silver is what i used. looks good on 15k Aeroarmor.

[Ediseye]

Even though some prices are high, I think that the economy is good as it is. With people always getting free money from asended players, they can get the 7k very fast.

[Guild of the Lords]

beggin is cheap i highly dosregard it :x

[Hadhodhond]

Right, they should make all dyes 7 plat each, this way we can all really work for them! :wink:

I can't see how they are more rare than silver. I think they should be around the price of silver, perhaps up to a plat more. But beyond that is goofy.

Sure, it's nice to sell one and make some good gold, but it all but eliminates the use of it for the lower level folks.

Wow i like your thinking, with those prices, i would be loaded :) yes i think black dye is too rare. Though i think the worst thing that has ever happened to Guildwars is when they changed the flowing real like economy to a static one with few changes.

[DarkSun]

beggin is cheap i highly dosregard it Mad

I agree. I hate the people who talk about dancing and stripping for money. Its really immature. Just farm the gold. Thats how I do it. That or I sell things to new players.

[Ediseye]

I personally like how the prices change from one district to the other and how they always change day to day.

To me, that makes it more realistic and real-life.

[wood kid]

You wanna know why black dye is so expensive: One reason. The dye market works based on supply and demand, and since no one sells black dye to merchants, but people buy black dye from merchants, price goes up. And just keeps going up. And yet people still complain about rising prices.

[harbinger]

If you think 5k or 7k is expensive, don't you forget that in the begining, whole fortunes has been built on black dye.

One vial could go as high as 37K ! ! ! ! One in a lifetime dream.

:lol: I remember the first time they updated the black dye price...
Some people making 175k a day by collecting black dye went ape :)

:roll: They cursed the FOD badly... some even left the game.

5k is still an affordable price, knowing that expensive armors cost 15k to 75k.

75k armors are an unaffordable dream for me. That's why I hope one day, they will afford you to wear special armor dropped from certain bosses.

And if you tell me that 75k is cheap and you make 400k a day, then say how you do it, or drop dead on the spot.

:evil: For a game that boast on being balanced and equitable, I don't think that people earning 400k/day can be totally honest.

"You can't be both rich and honest." -- Elminster
"That reminds me of the time when I..." -- Volo
"I don't want to know. Honestly." -- Elminster

[Grim Daddy]

From my experiences, the problem is not so much the price itself. To me it’s the reservation price that’s different for everyone. What a reservation price occurs whenever a person says to him/herself, “Okay, if it is X price or lower, I will buy it.” The problem that ensues because of items such as black dye is that an individual will hold a reservation price lower that the reservation price populous at large, which yields them to complain about it just about anywhere they can be heard. The tragedy to a situation like black dye is that there will almost always be some individuals who will want the price of such a highly valued item to be lower.

As for me, I only had my Necromancer have his armor dyed black, because I thought he was the only character that I had would look appropriate in black. In other words, I may not have gone crazy over black like I’ve seen many people, but I at least saw it worth the value to buy for at least one of my characters.

[Big TAOW]

Well its based on supply and demand.... and those who want black are willing to pay for it.... so if you want dye prices to drop u theoreticly can make the price drop...1st all you have to do is organize a boycott on the sell and buying of dye...force those stock piling it to sell it back to merchant for profit then the supply out-ways its demend and tht equeals lower prices.... However realisticially this wont happen since black is an attitude color and is extremely sought after... my sujjestion would be for the amount of time ur playing you should rethink ur farming runs and maximize ur gold intake....and remember farming 101 isnt to go for hours its a quick and conv zone kill some mobs pik up loot and rezone.... i can make 15k in an hours work like tht...plus try solo or wit a friend you get all the drops ...hope it helps and if u have any questions hit me up in the game ill be more than glad to help ya out....

[harbinger]

:oops: my head...

(x+sqrt(dye.price)/qty)²/log(y/demand)

:lol: eggnog... devastating effect... brain cell... dying (no pun intended)
nose leaking goo....

And I kept thinking that farming was exploiting a zone till there was no more monsters :? (dropped 2 black dye this way)...

:( 15k is what I do in a week...(when I am lucky)

:? I will try your method. Althoug I must admit that FOW armor lack in style most of the time. Except for female mesmer...goooophmaaaaah

[Aleggy]

ok i get it black dye expensive due to supply and deman i was reading down the posts and i lost count how many times it has been said on this thread and now i hate myself for adding it again lol

i too have only found black dye once it was in the catacombes pre searing

i would also like a system in wich you could craft your own dyes, mind you that would probably bring the price of black down within a week

i would also like to be able to take the dropped armor from foes and be able to craft it into armor so i would have grawl/charr looking armor or a necro could have a gargoyle head for a helm

now you could argue that you can salvage the armor and get cloth/tanned hides/bolts of cloth etc but thats for specific proffesions armour that you can use these for and it not what we are after lol

[Nick of my world]

you said to cantact you in game if i needed help (which i do), i would just like to know your in game name so that i could do that. thx it would be much apreciated

[Aleggy]

you said to cantact you in game if i needed help (which i do), i would just like to know your in game name so that i could do that. thx it would be much apreciated

If you mean me my name on gw is Aleggy Hinds

dunno how much help i'll be but i am more than willing to help

[Eeney]

800 hours = 2 black dyes. (both of them were in Ascalon)

defenitly think they should be much less expensive

[Sir Ention]

im not sure, the rarer something is, the more expensive...they've got to have SOME kind of really really expensive dye, so why not black? perfectly calm...easy....regular....strong...

[ddonaca351]

The thing I hate about it, is that it's spilling over into the whole rest of the game; weapons, runes, rare crafting supplies, etc.... Every time I want to buy something from someone, they want like 20-30-50K for it.... I mean WTF!
I have 4 characters (have del and restarted several too), and have probably spent 100+ hrs playing. In that time I have got 1 black dye.

The cost of it is like the vigor and absorption runes... 100K for a rune????? W T F?! All my characters combined dont have 100K (maybe half that) So if the powers that be SAAAAAYYYY they want to stop farming, then make it so we dont have to farm for weeks just to buy 1 damn rune.
(or get lucky enough to get it dropped)

I mean I hate the thought of going on e-bay to get gold, but it's getting to the point where I feel like I dont have any choice...

Please, Please, PLEASE fix the broken monetary system.

Dave-

[RiskYourLife]

Between my friend and myself with nearly 100 hrs playing we’ve only seen one black dye dropped.

:roll: since its already so hard to get it :roll: so if the people sell cheap then better keep it and use it for them self. This is just away to getting money like you getting money from lvling.This is just a part of the game.And the dye i not very important right :?: ,they sell it because they need the money,like you who wanted to buy the dye because you wants your self to look better

[Bel Javelin]

Black die is not to expensive, every other die is too cheap!!

It's the same with Runes, Sup Absorption is the right price, all sup runes should be a minimum of say 10K, Major Runes should be a minimum of 5K and Minor Runes should be 2K... the rune makers have to make a living you know!!

[Nomad 2]

Black die is not to expensive, every other die is too cheap!!

It's the same with Runes, Sup Absorption is the right price, all sup runes should be a minimum of say 10K, Major Runes should be a minimum of 5K and Minor Runes should be 2K... the rune makers have to make a living you know!!

Please, look at the other posts. The economies for these items are driven by the player populace at large. So most dyes, such as yellow, are wanted far less than other dyes (like black). Some players might actually want to give the dye trader money just to get rid of their unwanted dyes. To put it bluntly the traders can't sell something for higher than its demand. It screws up newer players in the game and cuts them off from items that only those who spent their time farming could get. GW is not meant to be a grind; one shouldn't have to make that much money just to get a few upgrades. All this would do is cause inflation for other (more popular) runes/dyes due to the increase.

What you are suggesting is an economic term known as a Price Floor. It is unhealthy in a competitive market such as dyes/runes. Less people will buy the items for sale creating an artificial surplus (bad, very bad). In the case of runes, which increase the power of an avatar, this means that there are too many runes floating out there without any buyers. Less people would use the runes and players become generally less powerful. Considering the dangers that lurk outside, it would be wise if the traders didn't create a price floor. The monsters outside might grow extra hostile then multiply and breach the gates. Do you think anyone is going to save the rune trader for creating a price floor on runes?

*Stops for a moment, Nomad 2 ponders if it is possible bring a Char back into the gates so that it would eat the Rune Trader, if this ever happened*

[Bel Javelin]

That's not strictly true, "read back through the thread" the price of Black dye is expensive because of its rarity not just because of it's popularity

Make all dyes have the same drop rate and see how expensive it would be them

You don't see people spamming WTB Red Dye because it's common and cheap... and if nobody wanted to buy the red dye then at least you would get a decent price at the merchant

[Nomad 2]

Popularity is the number of people willing to purchase a product, like black dye, at a certain price. Due to the popularity black dye has increase in price. That would be the same definitions as demand, so popularity is just another measure of demand. Rarity is another term for scarcity and that is something that is usually dealt with by increasing the price to an item to act as a deterrent from other player from buying it (FYI: drops are completely random, ask Gaile Gray next time she arrives). Players are willing and able to purchase black dye at a high price but are unwilling to purchase other dyes at a high price (such as yellow or orange). It won’t help decrease the price of black dye, if the price was increased for other dyes. In fact it will do just the opposite. There would be less people willing and able to purchase other dyes (such as orange and yellow) due to the increase in price. Those people will turn to substitute products (like black dye) that no longer seem as expensive due to the price increase of other dyes. This will cause an increase in the price of black dye even further than to what it currently is. Then the cycle will continue with people complaining that black dye is too expensive. Only this time it was caused by a market increase in substitute products which could have been prevented if the price to the dyes wasn’t increased due to the price floor you had suggested. An example of demand increase happening to black dye would have to be the Halloween Event in Tyria. During that time back dye spiked up a platinum bar or two because there were many that wanted black armor upon arrival of the Mad King. Something similar to this would happen if all the dyes were given a higher price floor. But at least it went down after the Mad King left, in the suggestion you’ve presented the price for black dye will go up and stay there because the prices of other dyes have been raised as well. New players couldn't afford dye with the system you've suggested. I'd suggest acting less out of your own greed and being more considerate to others who don't have all the time in the world to play GW and let them have some dyes that might be affordable to them.

[Bel Javelin]

Can you try and not be so condescending, I understand demand and supply perfectly, what you seem to forget is that a product has a cost price (this is how you would say it) "the cost price is what it costs to make something" so having a fixed base price is perfectly sound and reasonable

now in the real world (that’s you sat in front of your computer, not nomad 2) different dyes would have different cost prices because different dyes use different ingredients (still with me?) now in the game (not real world) the dyes are made of all the same thing, coloured light! (or the absence of light in the case of black... but I don't want to get to technical for you) which all costs the same... but does not (I beleive) appear in the same quantities for all colours of light (or dye as it's called in the game)

Restricting supply artificially inflates the price of a product where there is sufficient demand... which is I admit a bit more complicated to your basic demand and supply, but try thinking about it :wink:

[Nomad 2]

Yes, I know they're bits of light but for some reason other people will pay extra (in virtual currency and sometimes real money [via eBay]) for different bits of light. And there isn't much else to this part GW economy than a simple supply and demand (thanks to the trader).

Look who's talking about being condescending. You're acting like you've got all the answers figured out. If it were as easy as a simple choice over another then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. To be honest, I don't know a perfect solution and I just wanted to point out some possible flaws in what you wrote.

Please be wary of the consequences of your sugestions, they may be far more adverse and numerous (to the game) than you expect. That is all I ask.