a bit disappointed

[malak di asana]

So I am jazzed about the guild hall upgrades, and checked multiple times after different uploads. I also like the changes to the world map, where they list regions, ie skyward reach, etc. I also like that the green arrow points in the world map to show you which direction, with the location also in green. The new colored tabs to distinguish I thought was a kind of useless extra, but did not mind.
Then to my utter horror, I picked up some henchies to go kill stuff in sorrows. My usual plan is run out, kill things in my path to sorrows, then kill as much as I can in sorrows until I die. This has netted me on average 2-4 k each time. The money is nice(not huge), and mostly I hope for armor drops to both unlock things, and see if maybe I will someday be blessed with a sup vigor, and sup absorption. However, this is not my major frustration. I get down the hill, and notice, hey the henchies are talking. So I am thinking, what a stupid upgrade, but maybe this means they listened to the numerous requests to have henchies smarter. Alas, at least for this experience, it seems not to be the case, and in fact seems as though it is slightly worse. First, Thom, and Devona both wont attack the called target, and if the called target is the next guy past where they are, they just stand there and get destroyed. Mostly, I had to watch who they attacked, then move myself around to fight that guy(basically they were calling the target). Mhenlo, and Lina, and Aidan, all now like to reside just outside the aggro bubble, which now makes the aggro bubble 50% larger than usual, so they end up aggroing everything on the screen. I had not only to watch the patrol patterns, buy pay attention to how everyone set up, and constantly move myself around to try to keep from aggroing to much, but alas, no avail. Thom and Devona as soon as I brushed up against any creature with the aggro bubble immediately ran off to attack, and would not pull out, making it so I would have to attack in patrol areas, and just try to kill faster.
So I am pretty disappointed. I mean if they are going to put time and effort into henchies at all, Why on earth would it be so they could sing praises to ascalon and Dwayna during battle? I am soooooooooooooo
disappointed. I know this is not a game where you are supposed to solo, and you are supposed to pug all the time, but everytime I am in war camp I sit around for an hour spamming lfg and only the 5 man oro farming group is available, and it is always a warrior that has started it. I get sick of standing around saying hey can i play too? Seems lame. I usually wait to weekends to even try fire islands because most days not even enough players there to start a group. So henchies are the way to go sometimes, but man, it seems like they decided to go further on the stupid trail as far as henchie AI

[Nomad 2]

I noticed the same thing about the henches talking now. However, I didn’t notice any difference in their performance (that is a not an insult nor compliment :wink: ). I seemed to be able to control the targets of attack just fine with my warrior. Let’s hope that the Factions henches are better. This game isn’t always meant to be pugged so if what you say is true than it is most disturbing information.

[Stretch]

I would have to disagree with your judgement of the henchmen. I myself did the same thing last night, i decided to try to Kilroy Stoneskin quest down at sorrows as i have been farming and never bothered to complete it. I noticed the henchies were MUCH more attentive to attacking who i clicked and when. They did not go running around like Kilroy and each click caused them to immediately change targets, something that they only did after numerous clicks in the past. I have henchied all missions from ascalon to the desert in the past and done 80% of my skill capping that way. The talking thing they do, meh, no biggie, but their attention to my needs was much greater and even the healing from idiot alesia was far superior to her past hey lets let everyone but the silly henchie archer die ways

[malak di asana]

I will say, not really a good representation, as there was usually extra NPC's once I got to Cantha, but running around with my henchies exploring and doing some quests this am hanchies seemed just fine, maybe even a little to fine, as most of what I accomplished felt a little easy. But overall, I liked the way the henchies responded in Cantha, the pop up talking really sucks, and is in the way, but I am going to look, and hope I can turn that off :idea: :!: Plus I got some decent drops. New armor mods kind of suck, as they were listed at 200, but actually went for 25, but that is the market thing, so I will wait for any more mods if I want to sell, but while the amount of drops was not really big, I got several really good drops(for me at least). :D

[Grim Daddy]

I don't actually mind the henches talking, so that's not an issue for me.

As for the AI, I've noticed that the casters and archers will stand right behind me, which is an improvement over having the healers run right up in front of a Blessed Griffon mob & get the stuffing knocked out of them for being with range of 2-5 Symbols of Wrath. I've also noticed that the healers will also not try to over heal someone in an effort to conserve energy. Overall, they seem to be pretty on par with an average player.

[elsalamandra]

Totally agree Grim.

The henches are now slightly improved.

[Stretch]

I do have to make 1 exception to this imroved review i give and that is the silly Assasin henchman, as they are TOTALLY moronic and do that death walk out of a battle and right into another group for multi agro, outside of that, it does appear that ANet has stepped up the difficulty on a couple of the early Factions quests so that you have to bring humans. ie The Lost Son.

[malak di asana]

Some more observations:

1. assasin henchie as stretch said likes to jump into another group aggroing another group.

2. I seem to move a lot faster than henchies. In Tyria with open land this was not a problem, but in Canthan cities, this is huge. I end up activating monsters in an area, and think, hey no prob, just four, but will die if I do not run, as henchies are so far away. So now I move, wait, move, wait, kind of frustrating

3. Crowded areas- Canthan cities with so many nooks, crannies and jutting spaces are to easy to get caught on. I was doing mission to rescue little girl, and saw the green clump that represents henchies, so thought nothing of fighting, until everyone was dying fast. Could not figure it out until we were all dead, except Tai, Gai, and Aidan who were around the corner sitting there. After spamming a couple hundred times "im targeting x" Aidan finally moves a little and attacks so we could all die and rez. Very frustrating to see them just standing caught on a corner, and not coming in to fight.

Most of the rest has been said, ie healing sucks, one healer, and spirit guy not enough in some of the afflicted battles.

[Nomad 2]

I agree with most of the stuff you've said in your last post, however, I don't agree with this.

Most of the rest has been said, ie healing sucks, one healer, and spirit guy not enough in some of the afflicted battles.

I think that there's a push here to get rid of the mindset of needing 2+ monks/healers in a group. Besides it feels awesome to be able to actually take something immense down knowing that this is how it was done. I am taking this as a great opportunity to learn new tactics instead of regurgitating the same "standards" that were in Prophecies. Unfortunate that no one will ever see it. Personally, I think it would be good for players to be weaned off of using the old tactics and find that there’s something new and bold that they can try. That’s just me and I doubt anyone will take what I said as a serious recommendation.

Thank you for your time none the less.

[Grim Daddy]

The only troubles I’ve run into in Factions with the henchmen are the following:

1.) A civilian blocks their path & they can’t move as a result.
2.) The Assassin henchmen using a random teleporting skill that draws in the masses.

As for the healing "problem," I don’t really see one; other than hearing of players not adapting to their environment. In fact, one of the best times I had in a high level area was while I was getting the skill "Charge!" in the Isles of Fire. In summation the group consisted of Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers, & Necromancers; no nukers & the closest thing the Warriors (myself included) got as healing from allies was Well of Blood. The rest of the healing was up to everyone else.

What I see more often than not is a lack of damage prevention being used. Examples of what I mean would be not using: interrupts, blocks or evasions of attacks, or even exploiting corpses before the enemy can get to them.

[Shannon Blackhawke]

Nope, noticing no change here. Healer henchie still dumb as a post and has no survival instinct.

[malak di asana]

I can agree with the change of tactics. After making a Canthan primary character, and doing the "pin skills quests" I see where they are going. A great tutorial on basics of game play. Maybe a little slow to get through all the explaining, but I think worth it in the long run.

I like you point of looking at it different, and adapting new tactics. After playing the beginning and needed to look out for myself, not depend on healer to heal me of everything.

I still don't like that they get stuck, I have to do a physical check on them, ie highlight their names to make sure they are in the one green blob on my overhead, and that is a waste of time, but I can see where it would cut down on mindless hack and slash through areas.

[Grim Daddy]

Yeah, I do agree the starting tutorials were a little annoying but the later ones are definitely worth the effort, especially considering that the enemy AI for the quests and missions start to mimic some of these protocols (such as running away to a larger group if they are out numbered or larger patrols using smaller patrols as bait).

Though the healers are more efficient with healing; they still lack the common sense not to resurrect someone while in combat (the henchmen should just leave that up to those with the experience in such things) & they lack the ability to "kite" in a satisfactory manner as well.

As mentioned above in the last couple of posts, there definitely seems to be a need to change the henches AI, so that it doesn’t get stuck in front civilians or some random object.

[harbinger]

In fact, as long as you are careful of what you attack, and organize your strike by taking account the limited AI, you shouldn't have any trouble to do quests in cantha.

At first I was a bit apprehensive after Malak's report. But no... It is still possible to grind with henchies alone...

:D What I remarked though, is that the monk henchies takes its time to res other party member after the battle. She can stand on the body of someone, like she is pondering wether she should res the person or not...

This can give you the creep when you are waiting in between two incoming patrols...

(monster patrol 2) :evil: :evil:---> :x(you, cursing the monk) :roll: (monk, pondering) <---:evil: :evil: (monster patrol 1)

:D People often crit the AI for good reason. But it is also because they don't know how to play with them. Personnaly I found them more disciplined than some players, although there are things you definitely can't do with them (trapping, pulling etc...)

About the henchmen getting stuck on civilian, I observed that. They should let the henchmen pass through the civilians, I think nobody would mind (except the persons who coded the bounding box collision system). They should apply this to your pet too, because I still get stuck on my pet sometimes and it is still getting on my nerves.

[malak di asana]

I agree with Harbinger. It was not my intention to make it seem as though nothing could be done with henchies, just some initial observations. I was just as guilty of comparing old play to new. I am not completely fond of having to dedicate skill slots to healing, but I am more than willing to adapt to different environment.
I made it thru everything so far with henchies, except for Vizhang square, which after first, second, and third total decimation, I stopped, and went to do something else.
I don't even mind not getting rez until after battle, it is what I would expect with human players. In fact, the few times both PUG, and with henchie that I am rezzed during battle, it is generally to die again in sec. Can't even spam a heal on myself. I think the spirit hench has a rez at x energy, and current health that they throw just as they are dying so you are rezzed with 20 hp, and are rezzed in an aoe spell, so you fall right back over. My only saving grace when this happens, is I do not always get double dp, although sometimes i do.
I also found that if I call every target they respond much better, it is a little slower to hit ctrl every time, but gets the job done, and in long run cuts down my frustration.

[Shannon Blackhawke]

The problem I have with the Healer henchies is their inability to save themselves. They will run away from the party so that all the monsters can EASILY pick them off while the player is desperately trying to reach them. By the time you finally free yourself the Henchie is dead and you are often next.

Also the rezzing in battle is outright stupid. All henchies will waste their Rez signet to do so, but when they really need it (Like after the battle to rez the team healer) they won't have it so you'll rez at the shrine while they may be stuck fighting another group and now you guys are all over the map.

[harbinger]

:shock: now that's something new...
It never happened to me...

What happens is that my party die and my pet stay alive, but my pet manage somehow to find me (hopefully without the mobs pursuing him)

:roll: I will pay more attention to it next time I die...

[malak di asana]

I have seen that. THe enemies target healer predominantly, who dies quickly, then other party uses rez sig to bring her back, she dies again, rez sig again, dies again, no more rezes, just dead healer. As Finch pointed out in another post, sometimes healer just fights, no heals, and this is the first battle, so not like they are out of energy, just seems to stick on no healing.

[harbinger]

My bad :)

I was refering to that part in fact :
Also the rezzing in battle is outright stupid. All henchies will waste their Rez signet to do so, but when they really need it (Like after the battle to rez the team healer) they won't have it so you'll rez at the shrine while they may be stuck fighting another group and now you guys are all over the map.

And more precisely to that part...
you'll rez at the shrine while they may be stuck fighting another group and now you guys are all over the map

[malak di asana]

you'll rez at the shrine while they may be stuck fighting another group and now you guys are all over the map

THis happens all the time, usually with archer hench. If they are out of rez sig, and everyone else dies, they start to run back to shrine where you are, but on maps where the rez shrine is only in one spot, and you are at the furthest spot from it, then you have some trouble. I lost aidan once in fire islands, as we all died, he started to run back to shrine but went a different direction back than we had forward, and got jumped somewhere. Never found him, until we all died again, and he rezzed with us.

Some more observations while playing in Cantha. While doing primary mission for Togo in undercity, the entire time i was down there Tai, the healer, did not give me a single health boost during any battle. SHe would heal me after the fight, but during nothing. I stopped fighting and did nothing but try to heal myself constantly. I highlighted her, and she was healing anyone else, but not me. So I died, lots of times, as I had only assasin heals, ie +5 regen, then boost in health, jump to target, get life if they have greater health, and random jump, next hit 50 health. I attempted to self heal, but when trying to get to local Vizunah, there is a spot with 15 or so afflicted, that do not seperate at all, and pull one, they all come. Had -45% DP by the time I got to Vizunah.

Also noticed, there attacking seems not to follow any kind of logical pattern. In some cases I can call a target, and they will run in and fight. Othertimes I get the warning that I do not have to repeatedly attack, but my henchies are not going anywhere. Sometimes they run in and attack great. In undercity, when I was -45, I used assasin jump to get next to healer, targeted, did my chain attack, and jumped out to run and heal, when I turned around the entire group was running after me, without engaging enemy. Half the time i cannot stop them from engaging, while I am trying to pull a smaller group off, the other half of the time I cant get them to engage, while I am trying to keep my butt alive.

Finally a question on how chances to hit are determined. I was fighting afflicted, and an assasin had tiny sliver of life left, so I was looking for next enemy, and noticed that the guy still had tiny sliver of life left. I looked to make sure I was not under condition(ie blinded), checked him, saw no icon to show he had enchant of some sort. But I counted ten seperate attacks all of which missed, just kept popping miss above his head. I was level 20, with presale daggers, and 13 dagger mastery, but still missing, not just once, or a couple times between hits, but constant miss for ten strikes??? So I really dont understand how hits and misses are calculated. I used to have trouble with one type of enemy in prophecies too. ONe of the scorpion things forgot what they were called, but the archer type I would miss continously no matter my level, but they had stance that kept them dodging, this guy had no visible enhancements.
Just kind of confused.

[harbinger]

:? mobs of 15 that don't separate... ouch

:? That doesn't seems that logical if they emphasize on separating patrols in order to take them one by one in small groups... In underground city I met mobs counting 2 rt (and rt res mobs), I think it is the Vizunah quest. Killing 2 rt is as painful as trying to kill 2 monk :), this means one thing... I will bring along a mesmer...

And I agree about the henchmen attack scheme. It can be somewhat confusing. Sometime you attack and find yourself isolated because henchies are doing something else, sometime you run away and there are some henchies still locked in combat.

:wink: but I must admit something... playing Assassin is really exciting (not because of the avatar, although...)
In a way it is reminiscent of the gameplay of the ranger, but I remarked I run much much more with the assassin...

A ranger might not move much because of the ranged attack. But a static assassin is dead meat... Its probably the first time I apply the "hit and run" technic. I do like Malak, however I use a ranged necro skill to deal damage first, and then I attack and dissappear...

:? About the enemy that block or avoid your attack, it might be an afflicted bug if it doesn't have any enchantment or combat pose displayed...