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View Full Version : Why Making Guild Wars Solo-able Would Be A Good Thing


Ray Of Light
05-16-2006, 07:00 AM
[ This is just my musings and not an attack on the game ; I am interested to hear what other people think of the idea. :D ]

The cogs in my head have been turning since my recently posted elite henchperson suggestion, and now I have come up with some sound ( IMO ) reasoning why : playing the entire PvE content of Guild Wars solo should be a sound alternative to Pick Up Groups.

Currently ~ Solo Not-a-go-go

It is a fact that playing solo is discouraged by the set-up of Guild Wars, as part of the core ethos ( quite reasonably for an online game ). Of course ; huge props to Anet for including solo play capability at all, and it was certainly the biggest factor in selling GW to myself and my brother.

* Stated that henchpersons are toned down to make PUGs more appealing.
* Henchperson AI is kept primitive compared even to monsters ( e.g. AoE, ressing ).
* Henchperson skill sets are often weak, in particular with Elites that are entirely unsuitable for general PvE ( e.g. Charge ) or indiscriminate use ( e.g. Lingering Curse ).
* Henchpersons will not provide mission interaction ( e.g carrying burdens, targetting mission critical foes such as crystal runners ).

All with a good reason - GW is an online game and keeping people playing together is what ' makes ' an online game. But does it have to be...

Consideration ~ Bang For Your Buck

Thanks to a revolutionary sales model, Guild Wars is not an online game that has to keep selling itself month after month : you pay your money > the game is yours > you have fun > next campaign releases and the intent is that you want to buy that too.

So with that in mind, perhaps rather than encouraging a particular playstyle ( PUG, or other player groups ) it would be even more commercially successful to also make solo play as viable/fun as possible. The freedom to choose is a good thing. :D

Consideration ~ Where'd All The Good People Go ?

It is a fact that people playing Factions = less people playing Prophecies, and that when subsequent campaigns release each preceding campaign becomes emptier.
When there are not other people around, players must face quests & missions solo.
It is a fact that some quests & missions either are, or verge on, impossible for certain professions ( no matter the build ) to solo. Specific examples being Aurora Glade and Boreas Seabed ( for some professions ).

Even certain bosses can be impossible for a player to overcome with available hanechpersons, such as taking down a level 28 Mursaat Monk ( or even the dreaded Mursaat Monk boss + Mursaat Monk combo :shock: ). Few professions have access to the necessary interrupting/disabling powers necessary.

So at some point in the future, it seems inevitable that some challenges will have to be reworked or henchpersons upgraded. :?

Consideration ~ Dude, Where's My Charr ?

People start out as rookies. They play with veterans. They gain skill. They become veterans. They play with rookies. That is why PUGs are the best system.
Right ? Wrong ( possibly ).

People in Thunderhead Keep that have never heard of infusion. People in Maguuma with starter armour. Level 12s in Naphui Quarters. AoE pyromancers in Hell's Precipice.
These players did not get there with henchpersons. They were carried along with veteran parties, and along the way they did not pick up a clue.

It would help rookie players, and those who currently team with them, if :
* Rookies were able to face difficult challenges solo and get at least far enough to learn valuable lessons.
* Rookies had to stand on their own two feet sometimes because more experienced players felt that they could be successful solo.

Consideration ~ Boy Meets World, Hates It

There are three negatives that online gaming must face : subscription fees, stagnation and jerks.
Guild Wars conquered subscription fees ( hurrah ! :D ).
Anet combat stagnation with quite some gusto.
But jerks...

Almost everyone meets jerks in online games at some point, and with enough jerk incidents either quits their game or feels like doing so.
While gritting their teeth and sticking the mission out with jerks ' for the team ' might achieve the objective, they will still leave their gaming session with the knowledge that their play experience was quantifiably less fun.

It is not the responsiblity of online gaming companies to factor in that sometimes players want to game without other people, but it is an opportunity for Anet to broaden the market ( and draw in unhappy online gamers ) by saying that " hey, if you do not want to socialise you don't have to ! ".

Consideration ~ Brotherhood Of Man

Co-operative PvE can be a good thing. It adds an extra-dimension and enjoyable interaction can make a good gaming session great.
Co-operative PvE deserves it's special place, and it is quite possible to uphold that with strong solo capabilities. High level challenges such as the Underworld, Fissure Of Woe and Titan Quests would always be the realm of co-operative PvE.

Quite possibly such co-op would be enhanced by a stronger solo game, as experienced solo players have a greater understanding of the complexities of GW and their own role within a team ( solo as a Monk and you know the exact impact of each of your healing spells, co-op as a Monk and you never know if it is your Orison Of Healing or their Vampiric Gaze that is keeping a player alive ).

Consideration ~ Diablo In A Blue Dress

My final consideration, and one that I really believe Anet should contemplate as it could be very lucrative indeed.

Offline RPGs are not what they used to be. Diablo, Planscape Torment and Baldur's Gate were giants that strode the PC landscape and made the RPG genre something to behold. But they are gone now, and the offline RPG field consists of :
* The Elder Scrolls series, which divides RPGers in to those that love it and those that absolutely loathe it.
* Neverwinter Nights, which performs well but has yet to fulfill its potential ( particularly with packaged content ).
* The Dungeon Siege series, almost universally lightweight.
* Knights Of The Old Republic ( still ? ), which has gone from hmm to iffy.
* The upcoming Titan Quest, that might be a big hit.
* Diablo clones that tend to look dated compared to Diablo itself, somehow.

There has never been a better time for an online RPG to put a Godzilla like foot on to offline RPG territory and stake a claim - and as the only big commerical subscriptionless RPG, Guild Wars is just the game to do so.

Compared to the current generation of offline RPGs, GW is :
* Bigger and growing ( shame on you, Neverwinter ).
* Prettier by far ( system requirements of a super computer is cheating, Oblivion ).
* More tactical, without wandering in to micromanagement ( shame on you, Dungeon Siege ).
* More balanced, which is necessary in the longterm ( shame on you, Oblivion ).
* Capable of letting your beloved characters move from one game to the next - no need to wave goodbye.
* Just more fun ( /glaresatOblivion ).

In terms of play style, GW is a spiritual successor to the Diablo series ( very welcome ) - though Factions has shown Anet dipping a toe into the deep deep pools of Baldur's Gate ( Kurzick or Luxon, Am Fah alliance, drink from the cup ? ). With a few more steps in the right direction, I can foresee even Torment falling within the shadow of Guild Wars. 8)

With widespread untimed broadband access and a conventional buy-game-got-game sales model, GW just needs a stronger solo experience and the appropriate marketing to absorb the offline RPG market.

Fin

Solo Guild Wars FTW ! :D

elsalamandra
05-16-2006, 09:07 AM
Ray of Light

You have opened a very good thread here.

I do not criticise this game like yourself however, there could be some enhancements to make it more playable.

I am a very hard-core PvE player and I have found myself in many situations that have forced me to attempt missions and/or quests by using Henches. For whatever the reasons, you are in a team where the skills of most henchies leave a lot to be desied. So yes I do agree with you.

A very good solution would be to have a Function whereupon that if a player forms a group solely of Hench, that player could select the skills of the hench. OK maybe this may sound stupid but I would really like to see the monks with condition removers such as mend ailment. i wouldnt expect them to have all the skills and elites but a few-hard core ones would be nice.

Obviously this should only apply to 1 human 7 hench team.

It also sucks big time, as you rightly say, that henchies dont interact with the game, ie carrying things etc.

Albeit, the henchies are faithful and never leave (lol).

Soloing GW.

This is a taboo area I think and it is because of players soloing places like FOW & UW or even the Etins have forced Anet to either make these areas harder or insert new monsters like the one done in the dessert to discourage Griffon solo farming.

The fact is that like yourself, I play GW to have a bit of entertainment but Strive to progress in the game or whatever so we would like some betterment on the area of the henchies.

This, system, if implemented, like evrything in life could be taken advantage by the scammers who spoil this game with theren online scams and their sales of stuff on e-bay.


I am a firm believer that by making green weapons, ectos, shard etc more availble to players, it would reduce scamming.

I would welcome adjustemnts made to the game cater for events of this nature.

Ray Of Light
05-16-2006, 12:02 PM
Just to clarify ; by solo I only ever mean 1 player + henchpersons, not just 1 player alone.
Possibly because I never make builds practical ( / boring ) enough to solo successfully. :D

harbinger
05-16-2006, 12:04 PM
Most of my most painful experience was in PUG.

People who don't know what a res signet is...
People who don't know what pulling is...
People who don't know what a skill is...
People who don't know what calling is...
People who don't know what mana is...
People who don't know what waiting mean...
People who has all the previous ignorance mixed together (oh gAaaaawd)

When you play with experienced player, GW is a real pleasure :). Everybody knows what they do, and do it well.

Comparing PVE with PUG or guildies is like comparing a school football team with a professionnal team...

Unfortunately, unless you are with a tight bonded guild (which I haven't... lucky guys these knight templars...) most often you have to cope with the lowest player of the lowest levels of hell. Without any clue of what they do.

If you are lucky, you form a group with people casual but not newbie, good but not elite. And the main problem of these groups is, they do very well in easy missions. But put some unusually powerful monster or mobs of monsters, and they will spend the rest of the evening wondering how they died so fast...

One thing I would like to know... Is the farming protection set in PVE missions too ?
Imagine... The more you try, the less you loot, the tougher get the mob, the more you die, the more you try and so on...

Most of the time, the only way I got a monk or a good Rt in my party is when a monk or a Rt is forming the group (or when I do the monk)... And you know what? There is so much A lately that they don't take another one (me) or they take it reluctantly... Wonder if they thought about that one...
Waiting for 30 min because no monk would accept your invitation...

Well, I won't rant too much about it. I survived prophecy with that system (although I still haven't done any missions of the fire island... probably still recovering of some trauma from trying N times thunderhead keep and as Ray of Light mentionned, prophecie has been a bit deserted lately...), but sometime the difficulty really makes me go to other game to chill out (like a very bloody FPS where 9mm parabellum is far better than any skill I will ever know...)

To get back to topic :
After thinking deeply about it, I think soloing is still possible now providing they don't hinder the AI until it is as smart as a mushroom...

There is no need of adding special options or anything... just allow solo players to have AI as smart as the enemy, period...

It can lead to some kind of ridiculous situations...
Picture this : while soloing in undercity, you take Gai, the ritualist henchman. He has res ability. Well, why should the enemy ritualist res every creature in his party while Gai is pondering if he should res Devona or go play bongo with the nearby sewer rat...

I C U
05-16-2006, 02:18 PM
For my own personal thoughts. They need something anything to help the henchmen, better skillset or weapons or something.

I hate to stand around spamming looking for monk. It takes forever to get one for your group.

I really like it when you get a group formed, you are going through the mission/area and everyone in your party dies, except 1 person and that is because they are standing back at the entrance to the mission/area because they went AFK and did not say anything. 30 mins later they come back on and are like, "What happened?"

I would welcome being able to solo some missions/areas with henchmen.

I play the game to get away from reality, and sometimes I just don't feel like being sociable. That is when I take henchies and just run around the map.

I like the game and for the most part I like the people that I meet, but it would be nice to make progress when I just feel like being alone.

elsalamandra
05-17-2006, 12:55 AM
ICU

My sentiments exactly.

Not only if one feels in-sociable, sometimes, its better to do stuff with henches as you can work at your own pace and possibly avoid reushers, noobs and leaches.

malak di asana
05-17-2006, 11:18 AM
I can agree with this. I play almost exclusively solo. Now, I will say, that this game has got me to at least look at PUG, where I would never have if the henchies had any sort of brain to survive anywhere in the desert and beyond. Even still I use them to get from place to place, and only use PUG in missions. I would indeed like to see the henchies at least as intelligent as enemies, maybe even able to carry items. Plus I think it would be nice if they could pick up gold at least. Sometimes I play a ranged fighter, or caster, and the henchies is at furthest point I can attack, gold drops, I now have to run over to where henchies were standing to pick up gold, since I have to share it with them anyway, why cant the lazy B&*#@^& pick it up??
Although, as I said earlier, if they were enough to do the game completely, then I would never had had a single experience, good and bad, with a PUG

Ray Of Light
05-17-2006, 01:00 PM
I play almost exclusively solo. Now, I will say, that this game has got me to at least look at PUG, where I would never have if the henchies had any sort of brain to survive anywhere in the desert and beyond. Even still I use them to get from place to place, and only use PUG in missions.

That is exactly the same situation I am in.
Now I can see why people, Anet included, might say that such an approach is missing out on what online gaming has to offer...
But - as this thread suggests - I believe that supporting solo just as much as co-op would boost customer satisfaction, and besides there simply are not any offline games of equal quality at the moment anyway ( IMHO ).
After all ; for a non-subscription game, £30 from a solo player means just as much as £30 from a social-gamer. :D

Stretch
05-18-2006, 09:34 AM
I am currently in position to have to deal with other players either a PUG or get my guildmates to work through a mission because it requires multiple people in the Sunquang(?sp) Valley mission where you are to carry the Spear and the Urn in the mission. I went through about 3/4 of it the other day going back and forth moving the items along the way 1 at a time only to get glitched in a wall and unable to move and 2 groups aggrod us into flesh pizza. This mission which would probably take 30mins or less easily with any marginal amt of human interaction took me almost 50mins to fail. Quite frustrating

harbinger
05-18-2006, 10:56 AM
:D agreed, life in GW is full of "took-me-almost-50mins-to-fail"

:( It is even more frustrating when you fail for something very stupid...

For example :
In arborstone, you know the roof is falling on your head? Even when there is no roof over your head (hawhawhaw). Well, at one moment, I face Oni. They have the ability to kill some of your party member (or henchmen) pretty fast.

Well I finish the battle with one party member and 2 henchmen : the monk and the ritualist (yes... couldn't find a monk... again... -_-')

So we say : goodie, at least, these two will res the fallen members and we can go back to serious business...

15 min later we were still waiting for a miracle to happen... Why?
All the party member who died where dead in a tight circle. And we were close to them.

So the monk and the ritualist goes to the corpse :

1/ Begin resurrection process...

2/ #roof falling interrupt monk and ritualist while they are casting res spell#

3/ They heal themselves and the remnant of the party (me and the other member still alive). Then they wait a little bit...

Repeat step 1 to 3 ad nauseam...

So....

Given the two AI were a little bit smarter, they would have tried to res two members instead of concentrating on one (Rt res one, while M res another one) in the first place...

A human player would have tried to res again after the interruption (to outrun the next falling roof stones) instead of wasting time healing party members who just lost 5 to 10% of their health.

We had to res two members. And they had no res signet #censored curse#

We are left with 4 members and 2 AI trying vainly to res the last two ones... (who eventually left the game anyway)

:lol: So let's talk about frustration... (haw haw haw)

Ray Of Light
05-18-2006, 05:54 PM
Oh dear ; going off topic in my own thread... but I have to say on the Sunjiang District mission problem :

This mission is quite manageable solo.
[1] Do not bother with the artifacts, they are entirely optional ( yes, those missions were a waste :wink: ).
[2] After the 2 fire rooms near the start, go left and follow the corridor round until Togo talks about the portals.
[3] At this point the gate behind you opens and if you start with that room you will be less likely to get double aggro.
[4] Go Dazed Portal > Poison Portal > Spike Portal, as the spike portal room is infested with Afflicted - just kill the portal spirit and any monsters that came through to end the fight instantly.
[5] It is easy to provoke each of the 4 finale bosses with simple jogging, so even a wounded party can crush them ( they have cool Elites too :D ).

Back on topic : it is good to see that folk are of like mind. :D
Perhaps this suggestion has potential. /crossesfingers

As an interim change : perhaps Anet would consider making henchpersons immune to environmental hazards ( same as monsters are ) ?
This would counter the falling ceilings, mushrooms and coral issues which are just a nuisance for players but can completely destroy hapless henchpersons ( sympathy :( for Harbinger ).